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It was sold in the gift shop, not on display. I know it’s not an enormous difference, but let’s try our best to keep the misinformation just on their side.
I’m prolly gonna get down arrowed for this but, this correction came off very pedantic to me.
I’ve noticed in speaking to conservatives, those I assume you meant by “their side”, they don’t care about fascism.
They don’t care to read these 14 points, they don’t care about politics, they don’t care about accuracy. They care about the narrative.
It’s sold in the Holocaust gift shop, while they buy red hats at the MAGA grift shop. The rhetoric is the only game they understand. They won’t care if it was displayed.
I do think it’s important to be unassailable, because it’d be easy to say “the libs are making misleading claims” and then people not paying lots of attention will think there’s a “both sides” situation going on. I’m sure we all assumed it was literally on display as an exhibit; I was mislead. If you stick to transparent, honest language, the “both sides” stuff falls apart.
The MAGAs are unreachable, but the poorly-informed are out there too, and making them easier to confuse (by actually also spewing misleading-but-technically-true things) is not a good strategy.
Would a demo version not be on display?
Maybe, but that’s still insincere. When truth is on your side you don’t need to use weasel language.
And Donnieboy: I tick all the boxes! Beautiful boxes! Nobody ticks all the boxes the way I do!
It’s joever
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I dont think sexism fits, racism/race supremacy does. Emphasis on corporations also don’t fit, wouldnt government taking control of them fit more?
Those two aren’t mutually exclusive, but as long as the corpos kowtow to the government, they often let their leadership “stay in control” despite the government ultimately calling the shots still.
Sounds like it’s the holocaust museum folks you need to argue with about that.
Umberto Eco, who grew up in fascist Italy and has written extensively on the characteristics of fascism, disagrees with you about the sexism.
Sexism certainly does. Telling women that their place is in the kitchen and making/raising babies is sexist.
Not at all but its often a trope put out by right wingers. So, I can understand the confusion.
Fascism, at its heart, is corporatism fully realised. Fascism is also just capitalism when you try to say no. Of course, the nazis pretend that X company is nationalised but its profits are all given away to cronies, be it 1930s Germany and italy or 2020s Russia.
Left wing ideology is the community, as a whole, must own both the government and the means of production. Right wing ideology is the opposite of that where the private owns the government and the community as a whole, as if you were wages slaves or cattle.
no, IDK why so many think the government controls corporations under fascism.
under fascism, historically, business owners largely just became part of the ruling class and helped dictate policy in their favor. (sounds familiar doesn’t it)
it’s less that the government took control of the business and more that the businesses were let into the government. not to be controlled, but to control and benefit. sure, you had to fall in line with the party, as all people did, but it was more of a power grab by the rich than a dictator controlling them. falling in line just meant going on stage to publicly declare support for the party and condemnation for their enemies. remember, fascism is all about showing off and being the big macho man. it’s about looking the party more than feeling and being it.
if the government took over businesses under fascism German and Italian companies would be very very different today. as it stands, they either benefitted or got burned down.
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No, fascism has no religion and government intertwining and corporate power is not protected under fascism, because fascists want everything under government control, which includes corporations as well. Most of the points are correct, but I feel this is a bit biased and overall trying to project current issues through nazism; both are bad, but I think it’s very important to make the distinction. Know your enemy.
Most fascist dictatorships have had large privatizations and all have favored corporations in economic policy. You act like business-state collaboration under fascism was unique to the nazis, but it was also central to fascist Italy, Francoist Spain, and right-wing dictatorships like those of Pinochet or the military in Brazil.
Fascism happens when capitalism is in crisis because it’s better for the corporations than socialism would be. Both Italy and Germany had strong socialist movements in the years before fascists came to power, and fascists are consistently funded by a business community that fears losing everything it has. The fascist emphasis on the state, nationalism, and war, is only because it’s required to suppress organized labor.
i believe you’re thinking of authoritarian communism, like north Korea or the ussr.
all examples of historic fascism had very strong corporations that were heavily subsidized by the government. like Nazi Germany and fascist Italy.
now, we’ve never really seen a true fascists state outside of wartime, but that might be kind of the point of fascism. they must always be in wartime.
You mistook Fascism for Nazism. Especially flag is a Nazi symbol
And you know what that bundle of sticks is called in Latin? Fascis. That’s where the name comes from.
Also, nationalsocialism is just one of plenty forms of fascism. It’s an umbrella term. And arguing that a poster warns of the wrong sect of genocidal nationalist dictatorship, is just absolutely beyond any kind brain rot.
bundle of sticks is called in Latin? Fascis
Yes, what about it?
Also, nationalsocialism is just one of plenty forms of fascism
National Socialism was in Germany, perpetrated by Hitler, Fascism was in Italy, perpetrated by Mussolini. Every semi decent historian will tell you that
Every historian better than half decent will also tell you that those two systems of government were closely related (totalitarian political violence).
True, but also they had significant differences - one was that German Nazis were fixated around race, while Italian Fascists weren’t.
Second difference is that Italian Fascizm murdered much less people.
You just can’t ignore that
Tell me you don’t understand the term “umbrella term” means, without telling me you don’t understand
I’m not aware of any mid 1930s National Socialists calling themselves Fascists, nor Italian Fascists calling themselves National Socialists.
The “umbrealla term” seems to be invented later for… well why exactly?
For right-wing nationalistic authocracities. How parties label themselves often contradicts with what they stand for
Depends on what your historical question is. In most cases, this difference of degree wouldn’t matter.
so are saying that there is no situation in with it is beneficial to be able to group these dangerous warmongering ideologies under a blanket term like right now when so many with “slight differences” that are gaining steam right now. it’s not the slight differences we care about, is the shared hatred and warmongering and nationalism.
or are you just trying to defend Italian fascism as not being problematic?
“slight differences”
First: I don’t believe difference between Nazi Racism and Fascist Nationalism is slight as these ideologies had vastly different numbers of victims, second: I care for factual representation of history
it’s not the slight differences we care about
You should care about them, because those who don’t know the history are bound to repeat it. Generalization of ideas is bad, it both prevents proper communication, and it’s a source of most horrible ideologies.
or are you just trying to defend Italian fascism
Or right, now I’m accused of supporting fascizm. You can’t even have normal discussion about these topics these days.
One Thing I’ve learned is not to trust semi decent historians. They tend to oversimplify things a lot
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You might find this seminal essay on Fascism interesting.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/umberto-eco-ur-fascism
This was the essay I was going to post. It’s very good.
You’ll have to notice that the image in the post replaces “traditionalism” with “nationalism”.
Human rights under biden are so great. He’s pretty much blown all the potential human rights issues in Palestine.
You’re right. By that single, solitary metric he’s not much better than Trump. Luckily most folks realize that leaves a lot of other facets to consider.
Imagine seeing 100,000+ innocent lives as a single solitary metric. The amount of heartless brainwashed simping for a guy that can barely string together a coherent sentence is incredible.
simping for a guy that can barely string together a coherent sentence
Yeah, Trump’s defenders do have a history of doing that.
Trump is an asshole, I have never and will never vote for him. It is mind-blowing how deep they have you people in this limited mindset. It is literally impossible for you to imagine the existence of someone who can acknowledge how awful and unfit biden is and yet not like Trump. They have truly turned your mind to putty to mold what they want with it. At least try to take back your brain from them, it’s worth the effort.
It is literally impossible for you to imagine the existence of someone who can acknowledge how awful and unfit biden is and yet not like Trump.
Cool cool cool… So then I challenge you with this. Try to imagine the existence of people who understand what is bad about Biden, but also understand that any choice other than a vote for Biden is effectively a vote for Trump, and all the additional bad things that come with Trump. You don’t have to agree with that position, but please don’t pretend it doesn’t exist.
It’s going to blow your mind, but this is exactly the same mantra that gets belched out every single election. I know it all seems so unique and magical when you first get here, but to those of us who have been here awhile, it’s the exact same thing every 4 years.
It’s going to blow your mind, but this is exactly the same mantra that gets belched out every single election. I know it all seems so unique and magical when you first get here, but to those of us who have been here awhile, it’s the exact same thing every 4 years.
Hey buddy, back off on the condescending old timer bullshit, I still get a hard time from people for my nader vote, which was still not my first (or second) rodeo.
For those of us who have been here awhile and been paying attention, it seems pretty clear how Trump and his followers represent something different than what has come before. We also remember how Reagan and W upset the applecart without even being as bad as Trump and his ilk.
They?
Who’s this all-powerful “they” you are referring to?
It doesn’t require an all-powerful entity to control people who are ready and willing to act completely in love with whoever you paint a blue dot on. The mindless fools on both sides are not exactly the most clever people alive.
Yawn
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does ANYONE outside of hexbear not ridicule you? this bIdEnBaD argument was weak and pointless the first time some tankie sharted it out of his face anus.
what do you think is going to happen to palestine if trump wins? because you can bet all your CCCP flags that it’ll be exponentially worse than whatever’s happening with biden
Yes, I totally get that you imagine that Trump will be worse. In reality, the only evidence we have is that biden is absolutely awful and has the blood of many thousands of children are on his hands. I get that you don’t count them as humans because they speak a funny language and are too dark for you, but the whole world isn’t a self-centered child stuck in their own little bubble.
nah. you can try to put words in my mouth, but that’s a no go with me. how many protesters has biden deported, like trump promises to do? spoiler alert: zero. and that says nothing about what actions trump will actually take to reinforce israel’s position
look, everyone knows what you’re trying to do, but you’re not getting anywhere. your solutions of either vote 3rd party, or don’t vote, or vote for trump, are mind-bogglingly stupid and indefensible. everyone’s absolute top priority for the next 3 months should be keeping trump out of the white house. your motive for trying to undermine that doesn’t matter, but you really need to come up with better arguments
Imagine someone blows up everyone you’ve ever met in your entire life. Do they really seem like a saint if they don’t deport teenagers who mention it in a land you’ll never go to? Speaking of which, do you seriously think trump will have the military deport us citizens for protesting biden’s slaughter of Palestinians? What kind of a mixed up reality have they blended your brain into accepting as “obvious” fact?
It is incredible how they trick people into caring about the absolute stupidest things instead of actual issues. It’s like watching a 5yr olds birthday magician convince a bunch of kids that the dove is actually a literal scarf now.
you’re trying to defend the notion that a Biden win is the worst possible outcome. there are no words to describe how moronic and wrong that is
I never said that. This thing you people have where you can only see 2 options of absolutely love one side and absolutely hate the other or do vice versa, it’s ridiculous and it is seriously scary how predictable and unthought-out it is. You don’t have to be black or white. There is room for color and nuance to perspectives. You don’t always have to be a good little follower. Think for yourself. Say what you believe. Parroting your teams speaking points is painfully obvious and predictable.
You demand people think for themselves and don’t agree with their outcome. People have thought of the arguments you make and they’re not convincing. Telling people to “not be a good little follower” when following Biden is the most reasonable outcome given the circumstances is silly given the alternatives involve either voting against your best interests directly or drastically changing the way elections are determined which isn’t going to happen 4 months before the election. Give it a rest.
