Fuck Google.
Searching a tracking number from Chrome using Google? Finds a package.
Same search on Google from Firefox leads to nothing.
Hell net neutrality laws might even have relevance if they keep this up.
Sorry, I’m all for net neutrality, but behavior based on browser usage, while dickish, has nothing to do with it.
Edit: it seems like I’m being schooled. Got any sources to back up your downvotes?
yes it does, net neutrality not only has to do with the ISP but also the services. different useragent string should NOT lead to a worse quality of service.
Got any source on that? I’m legitimately asking to learn more about that.
“feelings” bro
Right, but your service provider has nothing to do with that difference. The fact that the entity you’re contacting on the other end of the connection is providing a degraded experience isn’t an internet service delivery problem.
Your internet service, which is what net neutrality is concerned with, is distinct from services on the internet. In the same way that your phone service has nothing to do with the quality of service you get from HP’s telephone support line.
The web is based on open standards; that’s what made it universally accessible. How does limiting access based on how you access the web benefit anyone?
It doesn’t, but that isn’t their point. They’re simply pointing out that existing net neutrality laws in the US usually only apply to ISPs and telcos, not internet businesses.
Imagine a business making some smoothies with water provided by the utility company. The business decides to sell less appetizing smoothies to certain organizations. Are you saying that that’s a “water utility neutrality” issue?
Where did I say it did? The fact that it’s not a net neutrality issue doesn’t mean it’s not an issue. Net neutrality is just a specific thing that isn’t this.
Nobody is defending the practice, they’re just differentiating it from what we’ve previously referred to as “net neutrality,” which is 100% entirely about how ISPs process internet traffic, and not about the services being used within that traffic.
Unless I missed the memo, and “net neutrality” means something different now.
It also does that with other unrecognised user agents.
Personally I don’t understand why someone would still use Google when duckduckgo has more features and is just as good for searching and in the very rare case it isn’t you can easily switch back temporarily by just adding the prefix “!g” to your query.
I tried duckduckgo for a while and kept coming back to Google for “real” searches at work. It’s not as good for searching in my experience. Yet.
Duckduckgo has become a little better than it used to be… but google has also become a whole lot worse.
The vast majority of times I go back to Google to do a search I find it also returns useless results. I’m not convinced it’s any better than duckduckgo. I think it used to be, but not anymore.
I had the same experience. I used switch between DDG and Google when DDG gave results I didn’t want. During the pandemic, I remember DDG giving lots of false positives and odd, non-standard web page hits. Like, if I was searching for current COVID advice, it would give me hits from the health department in Bumfuck, Nebraska instead of, say, CDC (and I don’t live in Bumfuck, Nebraska). It has really improved since then and now I can use DDG pretty much exclusively. Not having to scroll past a page of Google ads to find my search results is quite glorious.
The 6 residents of bumfuck Nebraska would like a word with you after their Trump circlejerk.
And I would be honored to speak with them!
I think it depends on wether google is eating the cookies or not
What’s your field?
I’m in a DevOps/Cloud Engineer role and DDG works better for me than Google. No ads and somehow fewer of the gpt generated fake help articles.
Same vein, devops/data engineering. Maybe I’ll give it another shot, I’d like to get off Google.
Big same. I’ll even bang out to Startpage to try to avoid directly using Google (!sp vs. !g), but that’s not as good either.
I bow to my search overlord Google. Until I try Grasp, Kagi, and SearXNG, and hopefully one of those will satisfy (in particular SearXNG).
Until then DDG remains my default, and I’ll !g half the time :(
Did you use Kagi? How was it?
Been using Kagi for a few months. Now that the unlimited tier is $10 it’s a no brainer, for me.
One of the three on my to-try list, still.
I tried it a few months ago and bought it before the trial was over. Took some time to build trust but it’s still on par with google if not better.
(My account probably looks like a shill for them but I swear I’m just a happy user)
I also really like Kagi, and their bundle for Ultimate users of the various text AI tools is also very helpful for work.
Isn’t ducksuckgo just paying for google search with a privacy wrapper/obfuscation layer on top?
Yes, except for it’s Bing search not Google
I think they also use Yahoo and their own scrapers too.
Not that it matters of course.
ddg always drops one of at least two troublesome terms. Which is infuriating.
Might have to do with my settings, in which case it is a bug.
Bangs are gold (which is why ddg is my default) but i still sometimes miss exclusions.
I get results with DDG
It’s stupid we need an extension to fix this on mobile devices but there’s an extension to fix this on mobile devices
Someone, light the EU signal!
Lawsuit intensifies in the distance
Can you say Anticompetition practices?
1 lawsuit, 2 lawsuit, 3 lawsuit ah ah ah
Slam dunks, yes. But does any of the people who would bring a case against then have enough money to fight an army of more lawyers? Probably not.
Idk I’ll just find some millionaire/billionaire who’s hungry for public approval in the space and bug them about it probably
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The thing is, I really don’t think, Google would care about Firefox. Firefox is sitting at negligible percentages of usage share. The only real competitor to Chrome is Safari and that’s because of iOS.
I guess, they might impact Safari on macOS with this, but someone would have to try this out to actually see, and ultimately, this could still just be a dumb mistake.Having said that, Google holds a near-monopoly in both video content and web browsers. They have a special duty to not disadvantage competitors and even if this was an honest mistake, I do think, it deserves a slap on the wrist.
Fuck Google. Ruining the internet for profit.
From what I can understand from the thread, they aren’t deliberatly crippling FF.
Oh, they also do that. Just not based on architecture. https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/21/23970721/google-youtube-ad-blocker-five-second-delay-firefox-chrome
The way I read it is Chrome gets a pass on the architecture crippling, the others don’t.
Someone correct me if I got the wrong idea.
So Google is saying out loud they are trying to be Microsoft and abuse its near monopoy to push their other products.
Got it.
Which turned out to also have nothing to do with FF but is targeting adblockers.
It looks like also this was against adblocker so, again, not specifically Firefox. Quote from the article itself:
The issue was initially reported as targeting Firefox users, but users online have said they’re seeing the delay in Chrome and Edge, too. Reddit and Hacker News users who’ve examined the code that appears to be causing the delay have said they see no indication that YouTube checks what kind of browser is in use. Mozilla’s senior brand manager Damiano DeMonte wrote in an email to The Verge that “there’s no evidence that this is a Firefox-specific issue.
Reddit and Hacker News users who’ve examined the code that appears to be causing the delay have said they see no indication that YouTube checks what kind of browser is in use
That means nothing, this check could be done on the server side and noone would know
I mean… We can we can invent a thousand conspiracies if we want to…
Except that the delay and browser check is literally in the JavaScript code, you can see it.
Indeed, but google can just transmit different javascript to different users/browsers/regions etc (that’s why browsers have useragents, so websites can improve browser compatibility according to the circumstances). It can be decided on a whim and noone would know except some coders at google
They finally made YouTube unusable for me even with ublock. Refreshing the filters didn’t work and told me I could only watch 3 videos.
Google was always going to win the war but I didn’t expect it to be like this.
I’m now using piped for all YouTube videos.
I randomly stopped getting the anti-adblocking. On my gaming PC I never got them, on my laptop they went away after I disabled my adblocking for one video and then re-enabled it. Now I don’t get them at all. Did they give up on me?
You are remembering to purge all caches before refreshing I hope?
I wish Piped worked for me, I was trying to watch a Linux tutorial in full HD to see the commands better and Piped just refused to buffer the video.
There are other alternatives too, like invidious. The yewtu.be instance works decently well for me but limits to 720p I think. There is a list of all running instances somewhere on the github iirc. There’s other instances that allow full HD, just have a search and you should be able to find one.
Just redirect any watch page to https://redirect.invidious.io/watch?v=%ID% and you will get a list of instances. Can be setup with Redirector in a minute
What works for me is opening a new Private windows on Firefox, with ublock installed, and then login into YouTube. I do have to login every time I hope a private windows by so far I’ve been able to watch unlimited videos with an ad blocker installed
Why are you using YouTube at all if you don’t like it so much? Go use something else.
That’s gonna be a lawsuit…
yea like if they want money just grow some balls and ask for a monthly pay for youtube they got our generation like cable had our parents
i would be willing to pay so much much money for REAL premium youtube
i thank the community for all the amazing broadcasts
Out of curiosity, what would you consider “real” premium YouTube to be? Are you thinking something where the creators get a higher share of the revenue in return for better production values?
Switched to Freetube/Invidious. Like the sun, I’m never looking directly at Youtube.com ever again.
It might just be a coincidence but I’ve had a lot of trouble using Invidious or Piped lately too. Videos load and titles load, but video thumbnails don’t load for me.
I’ve had issues with Invidious and Piped literally every time I’ve tried to use them. Can’t understand how people even use the public servers.
However I have disabled Piped proxy in LibreTube and been using that for a long while but for the last week or so it hasn’t been working at all.
GrayJay is still working though.
There was a problem with DASH. Now it’s fixed, it should work with the proxy enabled.
As I said, it’s never worked with the proxy enabled. And it’s still not working with it disabled, right now.
I have also had piles of trouble. I don’t get how so many people apparently have none
It’s the same with all the other frontends (LibReddit, Nitter, etc.). They never work and everyone is just like “try a different instance!”. How many dozen different instances should I try before I give up?
Shout out to Stealth (Reddit) and Squawker (Twitter), those both work the vast majority of the time without any “instances” to depend on or switch through.
I tried it and my main complaint was it was like 720p, so lower quality (noticeable to me just looking at it). But it “just worked” for me. But I’m also not interested in YouTube enough to play this game - if they block me, I stop going there. It seems like they give up blocking me every so often (or something updates IDK).
there’s a browser extension called libredirect that has a keyboard shortcut to switch between instances. you can also use freetube/newpipe/mpv.
I know what apps you can use. The apps are not the problem. The proxies are.
Good to know about Stealth. Thanks!
Yeah I might try the others a couple more times before giving up but it’s not gone well for me thusfar. Libreddit and invidious worked for me for like 4 days last time, both crapped out about the same time. It’s annoying to have to repeatedly troubleshoot what used to be something you could basically count on working
Steelmanning: perhaps no ARM Linux system was capable of playing 4K reliably until Asahi Linux came along?
Someone on the Hacker News cross-post mentioned it, but it seems like they assumed any ARM Linux device that wasn’t detected as running Android was some low-power device like a Raspberry Pi, and didn’t anticipate more powerful devices running bog-standard Linux until Apple Silicon and thus Asahi came along.
It’s probably the case that this was good intent given the lack of desktop ARM computing hardware, but they really should let the client decide the video quality.
True, but I would guess that the clients didn’t handle that well and this was just a stupid quick fix.
Apple Silicon has entered the chat
Asahi Linux?
They named a distro after a beer brand?
Asahi means “rising sun” in Japanese, and it is also the name of an apple cultivar. 旭りんご (asahi ringo) is what we know as the McIntosh Apple, the apple variety that gave the Mac its name.
… They named Macs after a beer brand?
They named an apple after a beer brand?
That was fascinating. Thank you for sharing 💖
Lina asahi is steamer who reverse engineering apple m1 chip for Linux, so asahi linux was distro for apple m1 at first
I think they want everyone to use user agent switcher so that Firefox share will drop and then nobody will support it and will die.
Easy: use a user agent switcher that uses blacklists. Mine only spoofs chrome for youtube.com.
Yeah I used a user agent switcher that didn’t seem to have a blacklist feature that I could find and it broke every cloudfare site.
Thanks, will definitely check out this unnamed extension.
Here’s one, though several others offer the same functionality.
Custom mode:
{ "www.youtube.com": "Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/104.0.0.0 Safari/537.36" }
Disgusting!
Here we go again…
