This isn’t atypical, professors email their students a lot and I personally don’t have a problem with it. The reason why I’m writing here is because of the contents of said email. Don’t worry, it’s nothing illegal.
Some of you might remember me writing about a library display where some of the posters had the OUN flag. I went to two of my professors about it (history and political science) to see if they knew anything about the display itself and the flag. To make a long story short the answers I got were disappointing, they didn’t know anything. I went the slightest extra mile with my history professor as he actually looked up what the flag was during our meeting. I went to him the next day to push a bit more on how it might be inappropriate to display neo-Nazi images in our school. I don’t want to go over every detail but if you are new and want to know everything or just need a refresher here are the posts: Part 1 and Part 2
So, resuming after that, it has clearly been a little while since I’ve had this conversation with my history professor and I honestly thought this would be the end of such a shitty saga, but yesterday he emailed me about it. At the end of our last meeting he claimed he wasn’t an expert on Ukraine so he is not the best authority to be asking, I brought up Ivan Katchanovski as an authority saying maybe I’d just read his works. He was unfamiliar with Dr. Katchanovksi so I spelled out his name as my professor seemed curious (he even wrote it down) and in turn he told me to look into Timothy Snyder. Our chat ended there and I thought that was it, but it wasn’t.
When I looked at my school email yesterday I saw one from him (special notifications for my professors so I don’t miss anything important) and the subject line referenced Katchanovski and the red and black flag. I wont write the email verbatim but i will do my best to give an accurate retelling:
“Hello SpaceDogs,
Because of our last office hours together when you brought up issues about the red and black flag and Ivan Katchanovski, I wanted to take them to the head of the Ukrainian “club.” I made sure not to out your name or class so you can be certain none of this will connect back to you. I directly pasted his thoughts below, and because I am not an expert on this topic I cannot help much but I encourage you to read far and wide and critically. Context is important. Scholars like William Risch have issues with Katchanovski’s arguments. Of course, we should listen to fringe ideas, but one must be careful with them and consider differing perspectives.
Regards,
Professor”
So Katchanvoski is fringe, huh? Well, as you can see this isn’t the greatest start and I was honestly shocked when I saw this email in my inbox, I don’t remember ever alluding to wanting him to investigate for me, but I guess my pathetic attitude made him pity me. I will be honest, when I read the subject line I was a little excited, thinking he had contacted Katchanovski for me, but when I read the full email I saw that wasn’t the case.
I am sure you are all curious about what the head of the “club” said. Again, I cannot write verbatim but I will summarize:
The head of the club has many issues with Katchanovksi’s perspective. He claims that Katchanovksi is very in line with the Russian government’s narrative and those on the academic left are eating it up. He (the head of the club) rejects both the idea that Ukraine is a proxy for NATO and that the US planned the Maidan coup. He says Katchanovski’s sniper argument is interesting. But he has many issues with all of this stuff. He cites William Risch’s critique of Katchanovski and links it: https://commons.com.ua/en/rozstrili-na-majdani/
for a shorter piece he gives this one: https://kyivindependent.com/euromaidan-murders-case-why-is-the-verdict-criticized-and-why-is-it-about-russia/
This next part is difficult for me to write but he goes on to compliment Risch’s piece as it acknowledges that the whole ordeal was very complicated and messy, he even makes a little comment about Katchanovski making a big deal over one supposed sniper. Some state actors and academics are taking advantage of the situation to form their own narratives.
He asserts that other things Katchanovski has written about are completely wrong, especially when it comes to the Donbas: it wasn’t a civil war, they were Russian backed separatists who had so little public support that they only gained ground after Russian soldier boots hit the ground. He cites Serhy Yekelchyk for the Russian troops in Crimea and other parts of eastern Ukraine. There is no incident of Ukrainians ever wanting to separate and join Russia. He says it is more similar to Quebec and Alberta’s issues with the Canadian feds. There is a right wing presence in Ukraine but it is not that pervasive, especially not in the military and government. There are more far right wingers in Western Europe and North American than in Ukraine.
About the flag, he links this article: https://kyivindependent.com/everything-you-didnt-know-about-ukraines-flag/
He summarizes the article, how back then it had nothing to do with fascism and was more about resistance. Resistance to who? It’s not clear as it was the 12th century and both Russian and Ukraine did not exist. It is correct that the UPA uses the flag, it is not intended to be fascist, although some divisions did fight alongside the Nazis. But they only did that because they wanted to be free from the Soviets (he then brings up the holodomor as a reason why). But they eventually turned away from the Nazis as they saw that they (Nazis) didn’t actually care about Ukraine. He doesnt know about any anti-Semitism from the group but cites Snyder’s Bloodlands as a piece to read. Some of the UPA were in line with the fascists but that did not last. Even with such a messy history it is safe to assume that those who wear the flag do not align with fascists and just want to express Ukrainian resistance to imperialism (which it has a long history of fighting against).
That’s it. That’s the email.
I’m going to be completely honest with you all, this was the catalyst for me. This is what finally did me in and caused me to break down. I haven’t cried in so long but this is what did it. I couldn’t hold it in anymore and just let the tears and sobs out.
I know I sound pathetic and a passerby liberal or conservative will read this and look down on me, call me a psychotic tankie who can’t handle the truth. I get it, I do. But this moment just cemented the fact that I am in a horrible institution and am truly alone.
I’m fringe, just like Katchanovski, and I have no one else here like me.
I don’t know why he would email me this. He had good intentions, I know, but god does it suck. I thought our conversation was done. I knew I was alone and I was the only person i could ever rely on, but this just for some reason made it worse. This is so much more than an uphill battle for me, I’m practically scaling a steep cliff.
Rest assured I did not respond, and from what I can tell he sent it after our class. I wonder if he noticed how off I’ve been this week. Who knows…
The last thing I’ll do is drop out, so don’t worry about that, but this has just gotten a lot more complicated…
As a fellow Canadian- you’re fringe, within this shithole settler-colonial country, and within a presumably very liberal institution at that.
The majority of humanity stands with us, whether for the right reasons or not. The mentality your professor represents will ultimately be a self-defeating one, as this country increasingly goes to shit and the world rises and liberates itself from western “civilization” in turn. From west Africa, to India, to China, and increasingly in the west and around the world, people are cheering on Russia, cheering on the anti-imperialist, multipolar movement and axis of resistance- for right reasons or misguided (but still convenient) ones. Humanity will win, no matter the cost. The liberal, imperialist ideology is the global fringe- and when it is over, it will be but a smear on history, one hopefully treated like ISIS, like the Nazis, one which will hopefully never know a second of peace till each adherent is reeducated or in a coffin.
Hopefully in time you’ll be able to step out of this shithole. That’s my hope for myself as well. The world is full of humanity, hell, even the west is full of silenced humanity for all that its elites and institutions wholly lack any sense of it.
From the Kyiv “Independent” (pro-Zelensky handpicked people) article:
“The people who are waving them are the people who identify with the tradition of militant Ukrainian nationalism. They respect the fact that the OUN and UPA took up arms in the struggle for Ukrainian independence,” Balan told CBC News.
Case closed.
2 books that i recommend reading on the Holomodor and soviet ukraine: Fraud, famine and Fascism by Douglas Tottle to debunk the holomodor narrative, and the national question by Stalin to debunk the “soviets oppressed ukraine” stupidity.
Ukraine culture flourished during the ussr era thanks to the policies outlined in the national question that precisely pushed for nation building through support for own language, regional traditions, developing economic links in the region, etc… Even damn Putin constantly rants that it was Lenin’s fault that Ukraine is a nation ffs, the ukranian nationalists hated the soviets not because of oppresion but because of racism towards the russians and other ethnic groups.
Anyways id avoid talking to him because he is most definitely a cryptofascist, damn canada is full of those.
You live in a land with a history of acceptance and lionization of Ukrainian Nazi collaborators who fled there after WW2, they have erected memorials, they showed their Nazi tattoos and insignias to Canadian immigration to prove they were not communists. This didn’t start with the current crisis in 2014, it’s been going on for decades and is so deep they invited a literal WW2 Nazi war criminal to their parliament to celebrate him and the only consequence was a speaker stepping down after the media backlash from the Jewish community was so intense they couldn’t ignore it. That’s the place you exist.
This was never going to end with the school siding with you, with the liberal professions denouncing their nation as being complicit in that messy history to this day and to repudiate the current Ukraine regime for being part of that long legacy. Nor were they going to accept the idea of NATO color revolutions, coups, and so on despite western admissions of massive amounts of CIA bases in that country they will claim that oh those CIA were just invited there to stop Russia and so on and so forth.
I think it honestly pointless to push back on liberal academics on something like this which is an active hot button topic with intense emotional propaganda and in Canada I’d say pushing back on Ukrainian Nazism in general at any point given the country’s history with that is less likely to bear fruit than say if you’d done it in the US in 2012 or do so in 2030 when this is over. Canada is complicit, it has been complicit, it’s unadmitted, and not something they’re going to ever want to admit so they’ll of course jump to accept whatever lies or deflections are offered by Ukrainians.
One in a thousand professors maybe would agree with your point privately but then say that it was a sensitive subject and it’s best not to discuss it further because they don’t want the massive media hate and propaganda machine turning on them, they don’t want Nazis putting them on their kill list or the admin painting a target on their back. The rest are going to react like this and some small amount of reactionary anti-communists or deranged pro-Ukraine liberals who are losing it at Ukraine losing it, much worse might privately report you to the administration and/or leak your name to these Ukrainian fascist groups on campus. I doubt the ones you contacted are going to do that.
So I’d just accept it. Swallow any pride you might have on the matter and accept there’s so much more to life than this nonsense. Accept what liberal academia is and its limits, silo that problem off, ignore the Nazi symbols on campus. Focus on your degree, extracurricular stuff you enjoy, your social life and reading theory. Stay strong comrade.
Honestly, I probably would have just groaned rather than cried upon reading that email, because it’s so typical of how antisocialists mishandle serious accusations: finding a couple of ‘issues’ with the accusation and then shutting the case as soon as possible, never worrying about it again. Putting more than a marginal effort into researching this would quickly reveal that finding examples of the OUN’s xenophobic violence is easy. Has your professor ever heard of Grzegorz Rossoliński‐Liebe?
https://sci-hub.ru/10.1080/00905992.2011.570327
https://libgen.rs/book/index.php?md5=C449CEBBF426E7765A5BDA8BA8E96731
https://carlbeckpapers.pitt.edu/ojs/index.php/cbp/article/download/164/160
Timothy Snyder
Ooooof, G‐d… I swear, that historiaster has laid waste to the field of WWII studies.
I would recommend reading Blood Lies as a refutation, but I am sure that most antisocialists would dismiss it out of hand saying that Grover Furr isn’t a real scholar, so I don’t see the point in recommending it to them. While I’ll be the first to admit that I do have certain… problems with Furr, I think that in this case most of his sources would stand up to peer review. Good luck trying to convince one antisocialist to read it with an open mind, though.
Honestly, I probably would have just groaned rather than cried upon reading that email
You are much stronger than me, but then again I am a very sensitive person, I have been my whole life. Hopefully one day I can have the same reaction as you. I think being incredibly sleep deprived (pulled two all-nighters in a row to finish a paper) made it easer to break me down. I think I also just got protective over Katchanovski too even though he’s a grown man who can defend himself just fine, I’m sure he knows about what certain people think of him and it doesn’t bother him, but him being called fringe hit me personally because I guess I am too. It also cuts that this is all coming from two authority figures, two people (probably more) that can do so much and I can’t. It just proved to me that I am unsafe no matter where I go in this school.
Ooooof, G‐d… I swear, that historiaster has laid waste to the field of WWII studies.
My professor seems to be a big fan of Timothy Snyder, and I guess the Head of the Ukrainian “club” is too considering they both mention him as an authority. My professor told me to look into Snyder during our meeting, he references him in our class about the holodomor (this was on Wednesday) and he gets mentioned again by the Ukrainian “club” leader. People seem very attached to him. I do have Grover Furr’s book but I haven’t had the time to read it, but I might have to soon.
Thank you for linking so many sources, I’ll try to get through them too.
I would hesitate bringing up Furr, they will assuredly label you a tankie and likely irrationally discriminate against you.
I definitely won’t bring him up, I’ll just read him on my own time. I’m already in a precarious situation and don’t want to rock the boat anymore than I already have. My history paper might be the tipping point but I’ll at least be done with the semester by then.
So many liberals will say Marxism/leftism is fringe in order to discredit it. I mean that’s how they get you, by making you feel alone and powerless! Don’t buy into that and keep your chin up!!!
I had several catalysts while earning my BA in History. It’s a sick joke, and if you cry foul, they hold you in the same regard as Holocaust deniers or anti-vaxxers because you’re “fringe”.
They’re half-aware of the double-standard, too. My professors talked a lot about the dubious nature of sources, and how much of modern historiography amounts to reinterpreting the available evidence to challenge narratives, and how much academia requires funding for research and catering to your sponsors.
My favorite professor told me you wouldn’t find any “Stalin apologists” in academia today. He, and others, all astonished (and horrified) me once. We got to do this trip to Italy, and I mentioned an interest in seeing Roma culture. The prof leading the trip (an American, mind you) called them the g-word and said they’re all thieves. When I brought it up to my other history professors, all Americans, they agreed.
The foundations are rotten. The body of “experts” is intentionally stacked to control the narrative. If you somehow get into a level of status and respect in the humanities, it will be through omission or deception. And if you ever speak against the narrative in regards to communism, you will be destroyed. Want to humanize Nazis or explain away responsibility for their actions? You’re free to do that. Want to point out the inconsistency of anticommunist fables? You won’t even be allowed to operate on the fringes. Even climate change deniers and anti-vaxxers will have more status than you.
I wish I had any helpful advice.
Like others have said, your professor is a doofus. Contrary to what right-wing media says, comrades basically must assume that anyone involved in higher education in the west (or really any citizen in the west tbh) is a reactionary, whether they be liberal or fascist until proven otherwise.
It honestly does boggle my mind when conservatives complain about “Marxism” is academia and how they have to pretend to be liberals when studying. Here’s the thing about that, they’re more accepted than any communist and the only problems they will face as conservatives is push back against their racism and transphobia (and antivaxx sentiments), if they drop those attitudes then they’ll get by easily.
My political science professor told me that I would do well in academia because Marxism is very accepted, but he was so so wrong…
Bourgeois Marxism is accepted. But only if you strip out all the radicalism, dunk on AES, and use it as a framework to make impotent ‘intellectual’ critiques like all the ‘Marxist’ psychoanalysts. Basically you can freely be Zizek. The few real Marxists struggle and get disparaged every step of the way. Maybe it depends on the field. There is some hope, though, so don’t be put off!
Adding to this:
For many years Parenti taught political and social science at various institutions of higher learning. His most prominent academic position was at the University of Vermont where he taught from 1970 to 1972. During his time there he was one of the most published and well known scholars on campus, in part due to his active role in on and off campus activities against the Vietnam War. At the end of his two year contract the faculty voted to extend his position, but their decision was directly overturned by the University’s Board of Trustees. The trustees alleged that Parenti had violated the University’s professional conduct policy, citing as evidence his “anti-business” attitudes and not saying the pledge of allegiance when he was invited to speak at the Burlington Rotary Club.
This is taken from a previous version of Parenti’s wikipedia page. I was trying to find it just now, and realized that a lot of stuff has been removed for referencing primary sources (lol, lmao even)
Good quote. It’s from a collection of essays. I’ll try to find the title.
The kyiv independent article that you were linked doesn’t even deny that the red and black flag was used by Nazis??? It even admits that Nazi Ukrainians killed thousands of Poles??? How TF is that convincing anyone who isn’t already a Nazi
It would have been better for your professor to have said nothing at all goddamn…
In a just world, showing such support for Nazis intentional or otherwise would get your teaching credentials revoked, at minimum.
You are justified in feeling this way. Don’t let up, we will carry on the fight against fascism together 💪💚
I really wish he hadn’t said anything because now I feel even more unsafe. I confided in him before telling him that I felt unsafe and like a walking contradiction in this school (stupid of me, I know), and he said that its a shame fringe ideas aren’t accepted here since a university should be a place that fosters free speech. He even promised that he’d defend me if I ever spoke up in class and got dogpiled. Looks like that was a lie. Sure, I’ve never spoken up in class with something that would require him to defend me, but why would I when I was emailed with this shit? Now I’m more isolated and fearful than ever before, I don’t know if that was his intent, maybe he was genuinely trying to help, but it clearly backfired. He really fucked me over.
I’m glad I’m not crazy for reacting the way I did, because at the time I truly felt like I was. But thats what gaslighting is, I guess.
I don’t think it’s helpful for him to keep calling your perspective “fringe” either, as if an accurate understanding of the world is fanatical.
Though I do wonder what he’d respond to a student that sent him Nazi apologia - would he push back against them too? Would he even recognize it as Nazi apologia at all? Surely he must be getting some because his class dedicates a week to the “holodomor genocide”. Considering that, I wouldn’t hold what he says in high regard on anything related to Ukraine, the USSR or communism in general. Why keep listening to someone who has proven their ignorance y’know?
You’re not crazy! Western countries rely on nonstop gaslighting to function really.
Maybe have a look at Jeffrey Sachs interviews on Ukraine. Certainly, as far as I know, not a “leftist”, being the guy known for shock therapy economic doctrine, but that also means he’s had an intimate history with that area of the world and he presents the history of this conflict quite plainly for Americans to digest.
Personally speaking, and I have experience with this sort of thing, often times you just have to lay low as a Marxist. My job does not allow me to express my actual opinions and I am surrounded by non Marxist, politically active people.
There are things in the world that constantly bombard us at every second and it feels like you are under siege. It’s a valid feeling, but ultimately we have to learn that we cannot expand our emotional energy on everything that goes on - it’s just not possible. It might seem crass, and I’m really not trying to be, but you have to detach and observe the world and events in the third person, as if you were a scientist. Do that whilst staying in touch with your feelings of indignation.
This may well be something you’re willing to invest in and so that’s up to you. But for future conflicts you find yourself potentially a part of, you’ll need to consider if you want to shoulder it. You have to learn to observe things dispassionately, but it gets easier the more you do it, and you will find optimism in the scientific unfolding/direction of history.
There is a right wing presence in Ukraine but it is not that pervasive, especially not in the military and government. … He doesnt know about any anti-Semitism from the [UPA] but …
Proceeds to (1) say something antisemitic, in two different ways, just in case you missed it the first time (2) apologise for nazis and nazi colaborators (3) explain why one and two are justified (4) appeals to ancestors of 800 years ago (because that’s not a nazi thing, is it? Do they also have a taste for runes?) (5) explain why it’s okay that all this is ‘mainstream’ in Ukraine and doesn’t indicate a right-tendency (6) complains about left wing academics, as if that’s not par for the course for someone who downplays the right in general and nazis in particular.
I can see why you’re upset, comrade. Sorry you have to go through this gas lighting.
As @bennieandthez@lemmygrad.ml said, you’re likely dealing with at least one cryptofascist.
Unfortunately, you were always going to have an experience like this. It’s a foregone conclusion for anyone who steps to the left of the liberal-colonialist-imperialist-fascist worldview. You can find solace in a few others from the global north and many others in the global south. Just know that you stand with the masses, billions of the masses, who will be delighted to hear that you are willing merely to accept their suffering as a fact; it’s validating.
Fortunately, your current feeling of alienation will pass. You will be able to steel yourself as @Giyuu@lemmygrad.ml and I and many others have had to do. Look after yourself. Rest. Keep reading. Read everything critically but inoculate yourself from shit takes and brainworm-inviting arguments by, at times, only reading ML or other Marxist texts. Such works are like a tonic for me. They remind me that I’m not losing my mind, that my eyes and ears do not, in fact, deceive me. Marxist theory can a better form of escapism than fiction.
A couple of Marxist-adjacent people who may be near you or who may have ‘followers’ near you are perhaps J Maufawad-Paul and Brenna Bhandar. If you find others in Canada who like their work, you may find yourself in good company. You could always get involved with the First Nations, too, and become a vocal advocate – reactionaries and critics will have a tough time gas lighting you for that without being obviously racist dickheads.
I can see why you’re upset, comrade. Sorry you have to go through this gas lighting.
That’s literally what this is, isn’t it? Gaslighting. I’ve never been gaslit before so I didn’t know what it felt like. It’s horrible. I really did question if I was crazy. If two authority figures are saying I am, maybe it’s true. It’s not, of course, but I went through those feelings of questioning my sanity. It’s a painful experience, I never thought it would hurt so badly. Even though I’m not feeling as terrible as yesterday, it is still lingering and the lecture today plus a new email I received is not helping. Sometimes I feel like this is being done on purpose but I have to remember I am not the centre of the universe.
Maybe I should read Marxist theory as a relaxer, it may help me make it through school more than video games will (although they are fun). Sometimes I just get overwhelmed with the sheer volume of works it can be hard to choose.
I will survive my undergrad even though I’ll be a little “traumatized” by the end. Maybe my masters won’t be as bad if I can study under a professor that is worth learning from. I want to get involved with either my school’s Indigenous club or with a local group but my social anxiety hold me back tremendously. Once I get it reigned in I will definitely move forward with that.
It’s not the first time a teacher has been wrong.
Your professor is a loser but it’s not surprising unfortunately. I am assuming that you’re a university student and most of those places are lib hellholes.
Yes, I’m a university student. I knew before hand that I was going into a very liberal institution (I would say most Canadian schools are like that) but I honestly didn’t think it would be this bad. My political science teacher told me that Marxists do very well in academia so my ideas and whatnot will not be unacceptable. But it seems like he’s wrong for this specific school as not only are professors like this, but so are the higher ups. The statement he copied and pasted from the head of the Ukrainian “club” (it is much more official than a club but I’m being careful with words) just proves this goes much further. So far it seems all the decent professors live elsewhere and I’m stuck with cryptofascists…
I get you, I’m surrounded with this narrative and even have people who openly hang the OUN flag in their bedroom and showcase it in online classes… no one speaks out. Why? Because they were forces who “fought against both sides”, even though it’s proven that it’s not true, it doesn’t matter, because government propaganda supports this narrative (you can already guess where I live).
Don’t be upset, you are not alone. Don’t let them discourage you. We are with you, comrade!